ARGUING GOD WITH LOGIC: THE WE AND WHYS (REPLIES TO VIJAH'S LOGIC) by Ebi Robert






INTRO
 https://web.facebook.com/ebi.pokey/posts/1364510273592271?comment_id=1365166230193342&reply_comment_id=1365715106805121&notif_t=feed_comment&notif_id=1487797463830121 (FOLLOW THE LINK TO SEE THE LOGIC, THE WHYS FOR THE ARGUMENT)

Thanks Vijah for all your comments so far. Like I said earlier, I was busy that’s why I could not answer you immediately. Secondly, my keypad misspells words a lot so I may not be able to reply you fast. But I just had to create time to make this response even though other duties call. I will start by replying some comments of yours to bring out my points, but I may move from the back to the front. So I ride:
AM I RELIGIOUS?
You said and I quote, “ ..I am not surprised that (we have moved from different points), that usually happen when one argues with religious people. In trying to defend or explain their side, (they move from one plain of argument to next) and sometimes without even realizing”.
Let me start by saying ‘I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS PERSON’. I am a Christian and not a religious person. I know that this may create another argument but if it does, that will be for another day. Secondly, today I will be arguing this with logic as well, not falling on scriptures, and in the event I do, I won’t make a biblical quote by way of mentioning the name of the book and chapters. I intend proving that even without references to core biblical quotes, arguments can be made about God with Logic, after all God gave us all Logic. Thirdly, I believe you noticed the parts of your statements that are in brackets? I deliberately did it to prove a point.
First, you agreed that we both moved from one part of argument to another, and later after classifying your supposed religious people, you concluded that THEY MOVE FROM ONE PLAIN OF ARGUMENT TO THE NEXT. And your conclusion is that, that is the way they are.
Well let me make it clear that there is no one that is not like that, not even one in any discipline whatsoever, not even you. Because reasoning begat reasoning. Consider Plato’s Republic and his arguments, one after the other; one question leads to another, so it is normal even to you. So it is not typical of a religious person alone. Science Hypothesis is a good example. For instance, I never spoke about the issue of water, I rather spoke about Man’s and God’s Calendar. And you in your wisdom took us to the topic of ‘Water and Darkness’ which I did not mention. You brought up that point of argument. Then you went further to talk about who created God and so on. I then had to answer all these questions and more arguments arose. So should I say you are also a religious person by moving from one plain of argument to another? I leave that for another day.
WHAT ARE THE INACCURACIES OF THE BIBLE? 
Thirdly, you said I have made deliberate efforts not to answer most of the inaccuracies of the Bible. I wonder what those inaccuracies are. But if I may rely on your prepositions, I think I understand some of your issues with the BIBLE. Bible is simple an abbreviation which means, Basic Instructions Before Leaving the Earth. It is a combination of various books written by various authors as inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is no strange occurrence that those who wrote the books in the Bible are Jews. This is because the Law given to Moses was to the children of Israel and they were the people specifically chosen by God, for through them would the Messiah come. If the birth of Christ is something you can believe, then you must know that he must come from a family and Israel happens to be that Lucky place. It could have been anywhere.
But the Jews were just lucky, because their fathers were faithful and God blessed them for that. E.g Abraham. God had to choose a chosen people so that there will be co-ordination considering man’s sinful state. Also God did this for his name to be retained in the world. Consider the problems Israel gave God in the wilderness and even on the promise land; imagined if the whole world were to be in the wilderness. Some of the books of the Bible are prophetic books. As a book made up of the New and the Old Testament, it is not strange that the Old books were basically of Hebrew root because the Law of Moses is of Hebrew root being given to the Israelites alone by God. For the new, it is also not strange as Christianity started there, so most of the early Christians are Hebrew born. The Bible compilation is God inspired. There are other books and articles written by People of God today which pass the same message of righteousness. They can as well be compiled as a collection of good messages but not as a BIBLE or A SPECIAL BOOK. Because the compilation of the BIBLE is not for production purpose or out of mere historic findings, but God inspired and special and so should not be imitated.
I once told said that the Calendar of God is different from that of Man; for a thousand years is like a day unto the lord and a day like a thousand years. This was the premise of it all. The use of simile suggests that one is expected to liken God’s Day to what we consider as a thousand years. Therefore, since God created the world and said it was done in Six days, one should not narrow it to our own calendar, hence one will be tempted to ask, which day format did God use? The American or the Nigerian? 
WHO CREATED GOD, WATER AND DARKNESS?
You then raised another supposed inaccuracy: God did not say he created the water, so why do we say God created it? In other words, you are trying to say that whatever God did not say should not be attributed to him. I do not know what you believe, whether God exist or he does not, or whether you believe to the extent to only what he says and not what he did not. But whatsoever it is that you believe, know that GOD CREATED EVERYTHING that was not there directly before the creation of the world, and indirectly those that were after the creation of the world and would be after now, except himself, Christ and the Holy Spirit. I told you also technically, that Creation may not strictly be tied to the creation of the world. Like I early said, I don’t know if you believe on God. But if at all you believe in Angels then you should also believe that they were created by God, and their creation was before the creation of the world, because the world was created for man. Therefore when we talk of God’s creation, our mind should not just be tied to the creation of the world which is the earth alone, but every art of creation by God before and after the creation of the world. The heaven means the firmament which was created by God. But the term heaven is also used by God to mean where he dwells which is spiritual and not the firmament with the sun and the moon. The bible called it the Heaven of Heavens. Now in the Heaven of heavens, there are things there that make up the place. By faith, I agree there is a floor, a gate, heavenly throne, chair and so on. Through diven revelation given by my mentor, Bro. Odubo, we were told of even bluish glasses and so on. Sounds funny I guess. All these things where created by God. These things had been from time ageless before the creation of the world for man. So if that is the case, then is it not out of place to say also that God created the water and darkness before the creation of the world proper and made it part and parcel of the world. Let us use logic now, assuming you molded a block and kept it at Agudama. You now decided to build a house in Okaka, so in building the house you now brought the block in Agudama and joined it in the building of the house in Okaka. Do you now say that the block is not part of the making of the builder simply because it was not made at the time the building of the House in Okaka began? Now I am not saying outrightly that Water and Darkness were created before or during the creation of the world, but what I am saying is that because God did not mention it at the creation records of six days or as one thing he created before the world, does not mean that he did not create it, because there are many things created before the creation of the world. And note, it is not everything you expect God to expressly say, because if that be the case, NO BOOK WILL BE BIG ENOUGH TO CONTAIN IT. So God’s revealing of himself is day by day, for those that believe him. I spoke about Mars, and Jupiter, remember it is man that gave them those names. Like I said, there are too many things created by God and so one should not expect him to say everything. Like I said, I do not know if you believe God, but assuming you don’t believe he exists, then there is no need to ask in the first place who created the Water and Darkness, since you do not believe that God exist in the first place, so no need to believe his record, because the bible is his record.

Another inaccuracy you raised: Who created God? I sent you a link. Go through it and you will see the SIX ATHEIST EXPERIMENTATION I used and the rhetorical conclusions I made. That will help you understand my point of view on that matter. 
GOD AND THE LAW
I am a Lawyer to be, I know that there is a different between God and Law stricto sensu, and I do not argue God in place of the Law. And I also know that our jurisdiction and most jurisdictions of the world do not consider spirituality. But this is because, if spirituality is allowed as a defence, many will use it as an excuse to cause evil, but that does mean that in the court room people do not believe in a supreme being called GOD. If you don’t, I do, because no matter how reasoning sounds sweet to me or you, there are some questions that I cannot answer and that makes me a limited being. Now if man is limited in this wise, is he not inferior to the one without limits, because God is not and God does not need to say we are for me to know we are, and like I said, it is not everything we expect God to say. If you can use Logic to search out things, then use the same logic to understand some facts without God saying so. I do not need God to say that Fuel close to firewood may catch fire, for me to know it may or may not or will. MAY, because Firewood and Fuel make me know so; WILL, because Firewood and Fuel make me know so, I do not need God to tell me so.
CAN A CREATURE BE BETTER THAN HIS CREATOR?
 The answer is No. But in this context, let it be known that the creator here is GOD, and so any analogy that places man side by side as creator and creature is fallacy for this discourse. This is why I said and will repeat again that, ‘A teacher is not the creator of a student.’ A teacher only helps to develop a child who has the same brain as the teacher has. So if the student learns better someday, he may become better than the teacher. That’s not creation, it is learning. A father who reproduces a child at best can be described as one who pro-creates and not that he is a creator. He can though explain how his Penis developed or how a brain developed via science, but not how it came about at the beginning of life from the beginning which your logic is limited to. So Penis beget Penis, but who beget the first penis, that, Logic cannot explain and I said that is GOD.  God may not have directly created every single individual but because he created the mechanism that does it till date means he created us all indirectly.
You can only explain through science how a child develop from his mother’s womb from conception and become a full grown man and die, but you cannot explain how life became; that is the first life. That means you are limited. If not, then prove it. Many believe in the Big Bang theory which is not even half developed. Others like Charles Darwin who talked about Evolution gets caught up with chance failing to explain why that ignition has never ever occurred at anytime, or why Australupihtecus Africanus has never developed to any Homo Eretus not to talk of a Sapien. In all one can doubt God’s existence, but not the fact that life is, and there was a beginning of it, and there is a source for that beginning. Any who doubts that, has simply gone mad with Logic.

ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS
About your comments, OH, you typed them and not create them because ABCD that was discovered is what you learned and formed your comments. But I may say you also created them and you know how you did it. But if this is any analogy to go by, then I must say, we have driven into a shallow one because here is a comparison with a logical being and a COMMENT placed side by side. You may not know how Internet Messaging operates but there are other Humans who know how it does because they created it. So while we may say you are not the creator of it, there is a human who is the creator and the Internet Messaging cannot be better than him or her.
ABOUT THE ROBOTS
Robots, OH, those beings are not to be placed side by side with men. Whatever they do is indirectly done by man because Man programmed him to work that way. Without Man, a Robot is nothing, so saying that there are things a robot can do that men cannot do is another way of saying, there are things man can do that man cannot do. So in all your analogies of true creation, you have placed living and non- living things as creator and creature, and in your analogies of false creation, you have placed living and living things of equal rank which I have said is false because those analogies are not good for creator and creature talk, taking into consideration the comparison of GOD and MAN, Like I said in one of my article: SOME ANALOGIES ARE BETTER LEFT ALONE, THEY ARE NO GOOD SET OF IDEAS FOR AN IDEA. So I speak of a Spirit and a Human, not living and non-living or living and living that learn to develop and pro-create.
Also, about why there are so many interpreters to the bible. There are many interpreters because anyone can hold the bible and have the right to speak. The bible said it: Many shall come in my NAME. MANY FALSE PROPHETS HAVE GONE INTO THE WORLD. Note the WORD, “MANY”.


                                                                                      Penis beget Penis, but who beget the first penis

                                                                                                                                                Ebi Robert

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